BMW/Mercedes/Audi Design philosophies

[SDNR]

Well I know I'm being picky, but I find the recent Mercedes designs not to be as well resolved as BMW's and Audi's. There are cut lines that just appear from nowhere that do not flow with the design -- the impression is a slightly disjointed and "slashed" design -- one could argue that BMW do the same ..but BMW resolve their designs much more thoroughly ...and with more finesse.

I hate to say this, but Mercedes is not designed to the same standard as Audi. When I say that, I am not necessarily referring to the appearance of the vehicle but more so the thoroughness of the design ..a thorough understanding of an aesthetic. BMW and Audi are far more fully resolved designs ...Mercedes is a little bit untidy -- the CL is an attractive car -- but, like the S, it should have been a magnificent car ....there are many things about its design that do not sit comfortably with me.

[Merc1]

Originally Posted by Rob

Well I know I'm being picky, but I find the recent Mercedes designs not to be as well resolved as BMW's and Audi's. There are cut lines that just appear from nowhere that do not flow with the design -- the impression is a slightly disjointed and "slashed" design -- one could argue that BMW do the same ..but BMW resolve their designs much more thoroughly ...and with more finesse.

I hate to say this, but Mercedes is not designed to the same standard as Audi. When I say that, I am not necessarily referring to the appearance of the vehicle but more so the thoroughness of the design ..a thorough understanding of an aesthetic. BMW and Audi are far more fully resolved designs ...Mercedes is a little bit untidy -- the CL is an attractive car -- but, like the S, it should have been a magnificent car ....there are many things about its design that do not sit comfortably with me.

I totally disagree with this. Audis aren't flowingly designed type cars they're usually of the bar-o-soap design with a swoopy roofline, but it works in that conversatively handsome type way that of course I like, but to say MB's are designed as well I can't go with that because to my eye (especially when viewed from the side profile) Audis are much simplier in design, almost plain even, but still elegant looking. That takes skill for sure, but MB's new designs are swoopier and they've still managed to retain that link to the past.

M

[SDNR]

I feared this would happen

Merc1, I think you have misinterpreted me here. I never said that Audi were better looking than Mercedes ...just that they have a more thorough grasp on their aesthetic. The current Audi aesthetic seems more thoroughly convincing ...Mercedes current designs seem to be slightly incongruous. I have said this several times before and I still stand by my assessment. Also, I think you are underestimating the standard of design at Audi. Contrary to the clean and uncluttered appearance, Audi is very carefully and skillfully designed. Out of the three brands, I think Audi probably have the biggest following among designers right now -- BMW is more dramatic and is also much admired.

Sad to say Marcus, but Mercedes is by far the most "middle-of-the-road" design wise. Mercedes is quite toned-down and (dare I say it) compromised.

[Imhotep Evil]

Yes, I agree that MB is middle of the road, and the S klasse and GL are definately compromised design wise, but this one is a way nicer/better/proper designed car compared to the 2 goofy forementioned.

[As for biggest following among designers right now, I guess BMW wins hands down, while Audi among more carefull uper managent/marketing personal]

[SDNR]

Imhotep Evil -- sure most designers would probably choose a BMW over an Audi .....as I would definitely choose a CL over any BMW or Audi ....but in terms of design discussion, and the general style of our time, I think Audi is the most interesting of the three marques. I understand that to many, the Audi style is boring and plain -- but from a purely academic point of view, Audi will probably emerge as the real design leader of the three. In many ways, Audi has the most honest and pure mien of state-of-the-art design in our time -- it communicates, with great clarity, all of the values and principles Audi represents -- whereas BMW is more about fantasy and metaphysics -- BMW is much more artistic and highly expressive.

[The Artist]

well i dont understand this design crap..
to me a good design is a design that appeals to my eyes..
and thats it.. no cuts, lines, flame surfacing matter..
maybe im a fool when it comes to car design.. but like i said..
it can be ohh so brilliant in the eye of design enthusiasts.. but if it doesent appeal to me..it can more or less go down the drain..
im sorry

[SDNR]

Well sure Artist ...you probably represent the majority there ...but do not underestimate the importance of design -- it has become a major aspect of these companies identities ...and Mercedes is lagging behind Audi and BMW at present.

Mercedes is definitely working hard on their design image, but quite honestly, the new CL is going to look old quite quickly -- I am almost certain of that -- the 6er looks far fresher and it is three years younger.

[Imhotep Evil]

Originally Posted by Rob

Imhotep Evil -- sure most designers would probably choose a
BMW over an Audi .....

Agreed here.

....but in terms of design discussion, and the general style of our time, I think Audi is the most interesting of the three marques. I understand that to many, the Audi style is boring and plain -- but from a purely academic point of view, Audi will probably emerge as the real design leader of the three. In many ways, Audi has the most honest and pure mien of state-of-the-art design in our time -- it communicates, with great clarity, all of the values and principles Audi represents -- whereas BMW is more about fantasy and metaphysics -- BMW is much more artistic and highly expressive.

1. To be interesting, IMO it should go beyond the curent state of affairs, and only the first TT and now R8 do that.

2. Thus if Audi doesn't change they won't become a design leader, IMO.

3. What does Audi stand for ?!

> They don't even know that. Audi has the worst image/has no image of the german premium marques because of that.
> As for communication, Audi themselves stated that they were following BMW on the path to humanity, and that so their cars must comunicate to people.
> However this only makes them a follower, not a leader (unless they pick something else).

And so, how can Audi comunicate with great precision their values and principels ?!

4. In its critics of metaphysics one of the arguments Nietzsche used, was that metaphysics is agains/anti-human.

> In keeping that argument, and BMW's stated goal that their design has taken the path to humanity, than BMWs design are anti-metaphysical.


But now back to MB.
Their main problem IMO, is that they desperately want to be loved by everyone.

They don't want to be seen as an old man/excesively conservative (design) auto maker, nor a love it or hate BMW type.

And in this process of balancing they can produce some really goofy designs, witch have neither the majesty of the older ones, nor the artistical shock and
awe influence/growndbreaking force of the avant-garde BMW designs.

MB represent the search for compromise/balance that on several ocasions goes wrong.

[The Artist]

Lol you guys are presenting a problem wich is invisible for 90% of the ppl in the world.. good luck..

[SDNR]

Originally Posted by The Artist

well now as i said good design is design that appeal to me..so i dont understand all your design talk..hence i cant agree or dissagree with you that MB are lagging behind.. im sorry

now the CL to me looks faaaar from old.. and about million times better than the 6er wich is one of my least fav cars EVER.. beacuse it has that sad front and fat back..

Well I still love the CL Artist ...please don't misunderstand me.

I think you are probably right that most people will not notice ...but most people are not as critical as us.

Audi and BMW are extremely design-led manufacturers ...not just in the automotive industry, but in all industry -- they are world leaders. Mercedes is also a leader of course, but I feel they have lost focus in recent times. Audi has developed an extremely strong brand image -- there is a very strong design-led culture at Audi. Mercedes is all over the place -- trying to incorporate old design cues with current styling trends inspired [mostly] by BMW.

If you take a look at the work of car design students in recent times, it is hard to see much inspiration from Mercedes in their work -- even Hussein's designs (whether it is intentional or not) take inspiration from BMW -- I would love him to comment on this discussion. Audi and BMW are probably the most favoured brands for most design students right now -- design students are usually very up-to-date with the latest trends.

The BMW 6 series is a very bold design .....maybe not the prettiest car ever -- and most of us would say the CL is better-looking. But the 6er is a much more fully-evolved aesthetic -- the Mercedes looks slightly eclectic -- much like it has been designed as a series of design cues "Mercedes Metaphors" arranged around a relatively dynamic shape -- but the overall result is not entirely harmonious. Whether you like the "Bangle Beemers" or not, they are confidently conceived around a much more fully developed design philosophy.